|A Conversation with a Jehovah's Witness|
|Date: Mon, 2
Jun 1997 13:02:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rolaant McKenzie
Subject: Re: question
On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, Steve wrote:
> > > > Find a Christian church that preaches the gospel as it is in the Bible,
> > > > the one that the apostles taught.
> > >
> > > You have to be more specific.
> > Why? I have already shown you from the Bible you claim to believe that faith
> > in Jesus Christ alone is what counts, not faith in an organization, or
> > other people.
> So I just sit home and read the bible?
I would not say or imlpy that. It is good to sit home and read and study
the Bible. But the Bible also instructs believers to gather together for
encouragement in the faith. And this would be a local body of believers
that teach the gospel of Christ according to the Bible rather than a
different one by an organization or person other than Christ.
> What about where I read in the bible about taking action towards what I
> know and believe?
The Bible says that we are to accept the gospel because "it is the power
of God for salvation to all those who believe" (Romans 1:16). The good
works that are part of being a follower of Christ come as a result of
salvation, not in order to be saved. Ephesians 2:8-10 says,
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no
one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for
good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."
This is one of the most precious passages in the Bible for me, because I
spent so much of my life trying to earn God's favor, trying to do good
works so that perhaps God would love me and want to save me. But I praise
God every day that that is not His way. I learned from the Bible, once the
veil was removed from my heart (2 Cor 3:14-15), that the good works come
as a natural result of being saved, not the other way around. When a
person is saved by the grace of God alone through faith in Jesus Christ
alone, he will undergo a transformation in his life. He will live a godly
life (a life in obedience to Christ), he will share the gospel of Christ
that's found in the Bible, he will also congregate with a local body of
believers who also teach, preach, and live the gospel of Christ. He will
do all this because it becomes his desire to do so. It is a natural
result of receiving salvation. Being reconciled to God through faith in
Christ makes this possible. I know this from personal experience.
> And I don't understand the concept of "faith in an organization".
When JWs look to their organization for salvation (i.e., one
must be in the JW organization in order to be saved), that is having faith
in an organization rather than faith in Christ. Neither organizational nor
denominational affiliation saves. Only Jesus Christ saves.
> > Try learning what the gospel of Christ is from the Bible (without
> > depending on WTS literature or any other church literature), then find
> > a congregation that teaches the gospel according to Scripture.
> I would rather wait for that congregation to find me. After all, if
> they teach the gospel then they would be taking to all of the people in
> their areas.
So after hearing the and seeing the gospel from the Bible, you would
rather wait for a group of people to come to your door? This reminds me
of Acts 24, when the apostle Paul shared the gospel with Governor
Felix. He thought to wait for a more expedient time to accept what
Paul was telling him. Of course, such an expedient time usually never
comes. Today is the day of salvation. Choose life. Tomorrow may never come.
> > You can do your own research.
> Done that. Posted some on my web page.
But that research comes from the WTS, which I have already demonstrated
preaches a different gospel from the one the apostles taught, and is not
reliable in Biblical teaching.
> > > > If you ask sincerely, He will guide you to such a congregation.
> > >
> > > NO, God does not guide the people to hise servant, he guides his
> > > servants to the people.
> > So I take it you do not ask Jehovah for guidance? Hmm... I thought JWs
> > prayed to the Father.
> One can pray for guidance but God still fulfills it with his servants.
> That is what happened to Cornelius.
So you establish my point. Pray to God for guidance regarding who truly
teaches the Gospel, and if you are sincere, He will make it possible for
you to be with a local congregation.
> > > > Believe and follow it.
> > >
> > > You have to be more specific.
> > You can read. Read the Bible and do what it says.
> It says to preach and meet together.
First, though, it says to have faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.
Believers are indeed called to share the gospel with others as much as
they can, but one must know what the gospel is and believe it before they
can preach it. And meeting together is something believers are called to
do, but who one meets with is vital. If a group preaches a different
gospel from what the apostles taught, definitely stay away. But if a
group teaches and preaches the gospel that the apostles taught and
preached, by all means meet with them.
> > I have twice given you
> > Scriptural passages that describe what the gospel of Christ is and what
> > one must do to be saved.
> What if salvation is not the issue.
The whole point of God dealing with humanity is to reconcile it to Him.
This is the main emphasis of the Bible. And JWs don't preach to get
people into their organization just for fun. They do so because they
believe that those who are not in their organization will not survive
Armegeddon and get to live forever on paradise earth. So salvation IS the
> >Both times you have chosen not to say anything about them.
> Salvation is not the issue here.
Oh, but it is. See above.
> >This only shows that when faced with Biblical passages that
> > contradict JW teachings, JWs try to ignore or evade them. This indicates
> > that JWs' teachings cannot stand up against Scripture, and that they
> > have no idea what the gospel of Christ is.
> Your passages did not contradict our teachings and they are not the
> issue here. The
> issue is the congregation and the necessity of it.
But they do contradict JW teachings. The Scriptural passages I presented
to you, and seem afraid to deal with, say that salvation is by the grace
of God alone through faith in Jesus Christ alone. JWs do not teach that.
They teach that one must be in their organization and obey it in order to be
saved. This teaching, for all its claim to worshipping Jehovah, actually
replaces Him with a manmade organization as the object of worship. And
this is as pagan and idolatrous as all the religions JWs criticize for
engaging in pagan practices.
The issue here is how one is saved. Through a manmade organization, or
through Jesus Christ alone? The Bible makes it clear that it is through
Jesus Christ alone.
The Bible says that salvation is found in no one else, since there is no
other name given under heaven to men by which we must be saved. It is by
the name of Jesus Christ that we are saved, not an organization. You can read
this in Acts 4:8-13.
After this post, Steve chose not to continue the discussion. It was clear early in the
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