Conversation with a
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:27:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rolaant McKenzie
Subject: Re: Your web site
On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, SDA wrote:
> > Hi SDA! Steps to Christ is a good book, but what do you do with the
> > other passages she has written that counter the gospel?
> I've read thousands of pages from EGW and never seen anything that
> "countered the gospel." It was through reading an EGW book that I became
> a Christian and accepted the gospel message of salvation!
I, too, have read hundreds of pages of her writings. While some materials
are good and consistent with Scripture, there are others that actually
contradict it and counter the gospel.
> > She endorsed such doctrines like the shut door and investigative
> > judgment, which does contradict the gospel. And since she claimed
> > the truths of these doctrines were revealed to her in vision, I would
> > have to say that she is a prophet in the same sense as Joseph
> > Smith or Mary Baker Eddy.
> It is a real mystery to me that there has been so much deception
> regarding the "shut door" out on the internet. If EGW taught the "shut
> door" in the late 1840's, then why was she going around during the same
> time period preaching the gospel and inviting people to be saved? Does
> that make sense to you? If you believed the door of salvation was shut
> would you go around preaching and inviting people to be saved? I
> wouldn't! EGW clearly said that the door to the Holy Place was shut, and
> the door to the Most Holy Place was opened. Is this concept simply too
> difficult to understand?
Actually, Mrs. White taught that the "door" of salvation, or "probation" as
she referred to it, had forever shut for the world in 1844.
In a letter to Joseph Bates, Mrs. White refers to the fact that BY
RECOUNTING HER VISION to a group of Adventists SHE PERSUADED THEM TO BELIEVE
THAT THE DOOR OF MERCY WAS SHUT.
"AT THE TIME I HAD THE VISION OF THE MIDNIGHT CRY I had given it
up in the past and thought it future, as also most of the band
had....AFTER I HAD THE VISION and God gave me light, he bade me deliver
it to the band, but I shrank from it. I was young, and I thought they
would not receive it from me...The view about the Bridegroom's coming I
had about the middle of February, 1845, while in Exeter, Maine, in
meeting with Israel Dammon, James, and many others. Many of them
did not believe in a shut door. I suffered much at the commencement of
the meeting. Unbelief seemed to be on every hand....The Lord worked in
mighty power, setting the truth home to their hearts....MOST OF THEM
RECEIVED THE VISION, AND WERE SETTLED UPON THE SHUT DOOR"
Letter B-3-1847, Letter to Joseph Bates, July 13, 1847, White Estate
In his 1847 publication, "A Word to the Little Flock", James White
recounts this experience:
"WHEN SHE RECEIVED HER FIRST VISION, Dec. 1844, she and all the band
in Portland, Maine, [where her parents then resided] had given up
the midnight-cry, and shut door, as being in the past. IT WAS THEN THAT
THE LORD SHEW [sic] HER IN VISION, THE ERROR INTO WHICH SHE AND THE BAND IN
PORTLAND HAD FALLEN. She then related her vision to the band, and
about sixty confessed their error, and acknowledged their 7th month
experience to be the work of God"
A Word to the Little Flock, p. 22 (emphasis added)
On March 24, 1849 Mrs. White clearly states that her vision taught
her that the door of salvation was shut. She warns the faithful not to
allow their faith to be shaken in the shut door by the apparent
conversion of sinners since 1844.
"I was shown that the commandments of God and the testimony
of Jesus Christ, relating to the shut door, could not be separated....I saw
that the mysterious signs and wonders and false reformations would
increase and spread. The reformations that were shown me were not
reformations from error to truth, but from bad to worse, for those who
professed a change of heart had only wrapped about them a religious garb,
which covered up the iniquity of a wicked heart. Some appeared to
have been really converted, so as to deceive God's people, but if their
hearts could be seen they would appear as black as ever. My accompanying
angel bade me look for the travail of soul for sinners as used to be. I
looked, but could not see it, FOR THE TIME FOR THEIR SALVATION IS PAST"
Present Truth, pp. 21-22, August 1849 (emphasis added)
To make matters worse, EGW later denied ever having a vision confirming the
"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in
common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever
closed to the world. THIS POSITION WAS TAKEN BEFORE MY FIRST VISION was
given me. IT WAS THE LIGHT GIVEN ME OF GOD THAT CORRECTED OUR ERROR, and
enabled us to see the true position"
Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 63 (emphasis added)
"With my brethren and sisters, after the time passed in forty-four
I did believe no more sinners would be converted. BUT I NEVER HAD A
VISION THAT NO MORE SINNERS WOULD BE CONVERTED. And am clear and free to
state no one has ever heard me say or has read from my pen statements
which will justify them in the charges they have made against me upon
Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 74 (emphasis added)
Perhaps in the thousands of pages of EGW's writings you read you
overlooked these passages?
> > I would be interested in your comments on the Shut Door and IJ.
> My thoughts on the investigative judgment are at
> [website address]
> I'm at a loss to understand how you can say the IJ counters the gospel.
> How does it contradict the gospel?
First, it ignores or minimizes the beautiful description of Christ's heavenly
ministry in the book of Hebrews and makes the description of Aaron's earthly
ministry in the book of Leviticus the ultimate model for Christ's
ministry in the presence of the Father.
Second, it places Christ in the robes and role of Aaron and requires Him to
perform the ministry of the Levitical priesthood for almost 2,000 years.
Third, it makes the ministry of Jesus Christ, the One who brought the
world into existence by speaking mere words, less effective than the
ministry of a fallible and sinful human being named Aaron. On the ancient
Day of Atonement, Aaron offered the sacrifice of a goat, brought its
blood into the presence of God in the Most Holy Place and made an
atonement for the people of Israel in just one day. But the
traditional Adventist doctrine of the investigative judgment says that
even though Christ offered the sacrifice of His own perfect life and
brought His own sinless blood into the presence of the Father when He
ascended to heaven, Christ has not been able to make a complete atonement
for the people of spiritual Israel in almost 2,000 years. To say that the
blood of a goat and the ministry of a sinful human priest in the old
covenant type was more effective than the blood and ministry of
the risen Christ in the new covenant is nothing less than blasphemy to
anyone who truly understands the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet that is what
the traditional Adventist doctrine of the investigative judgment teaches.
Finally this doctrine robs the believer of the assurance of salvation in
the present by making his/her salvation dependent upon some event which
is to take place in the future. The Gospel teaches us that our salvation
is assured by events which took place in the past--the death of Jesus
Christ on the cross to pay the penalty of our sins and the sinless life
of Jesus Christ which provides the perfect righteousness we need to be
acceptable in the judgment. The Gospel gives the assurance that our sins
have been forgiven and that we are now accepted by God because Jesus is
our Saviour and Lord. The Gospel gives the assurance that God
has already provided everything that will ever be necessary for
salvation. The only thing that stands between us and salvation is whether
we will continue to accept the gift of salvation on God's terms by
trusting in the life and death of Jesus or whether we will return to
self-centered, futile and foolish attempts to earn acceptance with God
and salvation by our own feeble works. God does not need more than 150
years to compile a list of those who were trusting in Jesus as their
Savior at the time of their death or at some future date. Surely it
would not take God more than 150 years to search through the few billion
names of people who have lived on earth and extract the names of those
who "died in faith" and those who were "living by faith" at the Second
Advent. God is more efficient than any computer human beings can devise.
What the Bible teaches:
1) Jesus, as our substitute, was judged in our place on the cross. He has
paid the price for all sin for all time. He credited to our account.
By His death on the cross, Jesus judged Satan and demonstrated God's
justice in the way God saves sinners.
2) The good news of the judgment is that all who believe and trust in the
life, death, and resurrection of Christ can say with assurance, "I've been
acquitted!" We have already been judged in Christ. Those who reject the
Gospel, judge themselves unworthy of eternal life.
3) The second coming of Christ will be a revelation of how men responded
to God's gracious gift of salvation.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent
Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out
of death into life" (Jn 5:24).
That's why the IJ contradicts the gospel.
May God bless your study.
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